♪♪ >> ON THURSDAY OF THIS WEEK HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY ROBERT F. KENNEDY JUNIOR ANNOUNCED PLANS TO CHANGE THE WAY VACCINES ARE TESTED, RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER A NEW COVID BOOSTER WOULD BE AVAILABLE THIS FALL.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA ANNOUNCED A NEW PROJECT LAST WEEK TO COUNTER VACCINE HESITANCY AND THE ANTI-VAX MESSAGING COMING OUT OF THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION.

ONE OF THE PEOPLE LEADING THE VACCINE INTEGRITY PROJECT A FAMILIAR FACE TO "ALMANAC" VIEWERS, WORLD RENOWNED EPIDEMIOLOGIST AND HEAD OF THE U'S CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE AND POLICY, MIKE OSTERHOLM.

WELCOME BACK.

TWO THINGS HAPPENED.

EVIDENTLY NEW VACCINES WOULD HAVE TO BE SUBJECTED TO PLACEBO CONTROLLED TRIALS.

THE VACCINE THAT'S 97% EFFECTIVE AGAINST MEASLES EVIDENTLY THE NEW ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO LOOK FOR NEW MEASLES TREATMENTS.

WHAT DO THOSE TWO THINGS TELL YOU?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT IS BASICALLY A DISASTER UNFOLDING IN FRONT OF US IN TERMS OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND YOU'VE NEVER HEARD ME USE THAT WORD BEFORE, AND THAT'S HOW BAD IT IS.

EVERY DAY THERE HAS BEEN SOMETHING NEW COMING OUT OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES WITH SOME NEW CLAIM ABOUT SOMETHING.

AND MUCH OF IT IS JUST PLAIN DISINFORMATION, IT'S NOT TRUE.

AND WE AS SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY REALLY HAVE TO STAND UP AND MAKE SURE THAT THAT MESSAGE IS LEAR TO THE PUBLIC AND TO CLINICIANS WHAT REALLY IS TRUE.

FOR EXAMPLE, TALKING ABOUT DOING VACCINES FOR PLACEBO CONTROLLED TRIALS.

THERE HAVE BEEN HUNDREDS OF PLACEBO CONTROLLED TRIALS AND PLACEBO IS AN INERT SUBSTANCE SO GIVING SOMEONE SALINE VERSUS A VACCINE.

ON THE OTHER HAND FOR STUDIES WHERE YOU'RE LOOKING AT IMPROVED VACCINES, YOU HAVE A VACCINE THAT ORKS SO YOU CAN'T USE A PLACEBO, IT ETHICALLY WOULD BE WRONG, IKE IMAGINING CANCER TREATMENT STUDIES TODAY WHERE YOU GET THE TREATMENT OR YOU WON'T.

NO, THEY GIVE YOU THE REGULAR TREATMENT AND THEY ADD ON THE ADDITIONAL AND SAY DOES IT DO BETTER.

SO WE'RE TRYING TO AS PART F OUR GROUP REALLY BRING TOGETHER A NATIONAL CONSENSUS ON WHAT ARE THE KEY ISSUES, MISINFORMATION, DISINFORMATION AND HOW DO WE TRY TO BEST INFORM THE PUBLIC ABOUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE.

>> Eric: WHAT IS THE VACCINE INTEGRITY PROJECT AND WHY IS IT NEEDED?

>> WELL, ACTUALLY IT WAS ON THIS SHOW RIGHT AFTER THE ELECTION I TALKED ABOUT THE DISASTER I SAW COMING AND I WROTE AN OP-ED PIECE IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES" JUST A WEEK AFTER THE ELECTION AND SAID THIS IS ALL GOING TO BE ABOUT 2025 AND IF YOU READ THAT YOU'LL KNOW WHAT'S IN THERE ABOUT PUBLIC HEALTH AND VACCINES AND SURE ENOUGH, IT UNFOLDED.

THEN ON TOP OF THAT WHEN Mr. KENNEDY WAS ACTUALLY NAMED AS THE SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AND GOT THROUGH A MAN WHO HAS SPENT LARGELY MOST OF HIS ADULT CAREER AS AN ANTI-VACCINE ZEALOT WHO'S MADE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN LITIGATION SUITS AGAINST VACCINE MANUFACTURERS WE KNEW WE WERE IN BIG TROUBLE.

AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENED SO FAR.

IF I COULD GO THROUGH DAY BY DAY BY DAY AND SHARE WITH YOU THE KINDS OF INFORMATION THAT REALLY GIVES YOU THE SENSE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING, HE GOES TO TEXAS HAS WE HAVE A LARGE OUTBREAK GOING, HE TALKS TO THE FAMILY OF THE YOUNG GIRL THAT DIED AND HE SAYS, YES, YOU SHOULD GET A VACCINE FOR THE OUTBREAK BUT JUST BE CAREFUL BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S IN THEM.

>> Eric: HOW DO YOU USE HIS PROJECT TO GET MORE INFORMATION OUT?

>> WELL, RIGHT NOW WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE HAVE A STEERING COMMITTEE THAT IS REALLY TWO VERY RENOWNED PEOPLE, FORMER HEAD OF THE NAT NATIONAL ACADEMF MEDICINE, FORMER FDA COMMITTEE, ASA HUTCHINSON, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ARKANSAS.

AND FRED UPTON, CONGRESSMAN FROM MICHIGAN, VERY INVOLVED WITH A NUMBER OF HEALTH RELATED ISSUES.

SO WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE THAT IN OUR GROUP TO HELP US DECIDE.

WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS WE HAVE EIGHT FOCUS GROUPS THAT WERE SCHEDULED OVER THE NEXT EIGHT WEEKS.

MAJOR EFFORTS TO REACH ALL THE VACCINE ENTERPRISE IN THIS COUNTRY FROM THE BASIC RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT ALL THE WAY TO THE FINAL ADMINISTRATION OF THE VACCINE.

WHAT ARE THE SHORTCOMINGS, WHAT ARE THE PROBLEMS, CDC HAS ALL BEEN BUT GUTTED IN TERMS OF INFORMATION DISSEMINATION SO WE HAVE TO REALLY COME UP WITH OUR OWN.

MY FIRST, SECOND, AND THIRD CHOICE WOULD BE TO HAVE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DO THEIR JOB THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO BUT THEY'RE NOT.

>> Cathy: WHY DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD BE EFFECTIVE, YOUR GROUP WOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE EFFECTIVE OUTSIDE OF GOVERNMENT?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT THAT WE KNOW WE CAN BE EFFECTIVE.

SOMEBODY HAS TO DO SOMETHING AND IT WASN'T BEING DONE SO WE MERELY DECIDED, YOU KNOW, IT'S OUR CENTER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA, WE'LL DO IT.

JUST AS WE'VE DONE A LOT OF OTHER PROJECTS, WE'RE THE CENTER RIGHT NOW FOR THE WHOLE WORLD THAT'S MONITORING VACCINE DEVELOPMENT FOR INFLUENZA AND CORONAVIRUS VACCINES SO WE'VE HAD A PRESENCE IN THIS AREA.

WHEN WE SAY WE TOO, BY THE WAY WE HAVE BROUGHT ON A NUMBER OF OUTSIDE PEOPLE WHO ARE REAL EXPERTS TO BE PART OF THIS EFFORT WITH US AND SO WE'RE KIND OF THE CATALYST, WE'RE ALSO THE PLACE THIS RESIDES BUT WE'RE JUST A SMALL PEOPLE OF WHAT ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE INVOLVED.

>> Cathy: WILL YOU BE ABLE TO KEEP VACCINES AVAILABLE TO ALL OF THOSE WHO NEED THEM DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT POINT.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO REPLACE THE ADVISORY COMMUNITY OF PRACTICES.

WE WON'T, WE'RE NOT A GOVERNMENT GENCY, WE WON'T.

WE'RE HERE TO BASICALLY TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT VACCINES, WE'RE HERE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PUBLIC KNOWS THAT WE'RE HERE TO COUNTER THE DIS AND MISINFORMATION THAT'S COMING OUT OF THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION BUT IN THINGS LIKE THAT THEY'RE STILL GOING TO BE VULNERABLE.

>> Eric: KEEP US POSTED ON HOW IT GOES AND WE'LL HAVE YOU