>> CATHY: HAVE WE MENTIONED IT'S THE FINAL FRIDAY OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION?

OUR COUCHFUL OF EXPERTS IS HERE TO TELL US WHAT LEGISLATIVE LEADERS REALLY SAID EARLIER IN THE SHOW.

REPUBLICANS UP FIRST.

BRIAN MCDANIEL IS A FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER TURNED LOBBYIST AND STAND-UP COMEDIAN.

ANNETTE MEEKS IS A FORMER CONGRESSIONAL STAFFER AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR CANDIDATE, WHO NOW HEADS THE FREEDOM FOUNDATION OF MINNESOTA.

DEMOCRATS HERE TONIGHT... JAVIER MORILLO IS A LONGTIME UNION AND PARTY ACTIVIST AND A FORMER NATIONAL COMMITTEE MAN.

AND WE WELCOME BACK ALYSEN NESSE, PARTY LOYALIST AND A LOBBYIST.

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US.

WHAT SHOULD WE TALK ABOUT?

OKAY, SO THE CONVERSATION WE HAD EARLIER TONIGHT WITH THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS WAS INTERESTING.

AND I'M WONDERING, DO YOU ACTUALLY SEE HIS ENDING ON TIME, BRIAN McDANIEL?

YOU'RE UP THERE ALL THE TIME.

AND NOW THE CONFERENCE COMMITTEES HAVE TO GET TO WORK, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IN JANUARY, WE COULD HAVE PREDICTED THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO FINISH ON TIME.

WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GOING TO BE LIKE THIS.

AND WHAT HAPPENED ON THE 15th IS UNPRECEDENTED.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS A LEGISLATIVE STAFFER, I WORKED FOR THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, AND WE HAD MANY MANY MANY YEARS OF NEGOTIATIONS, SOME WENT WELL, SOME DIDN'T GO WELL, SOMETIMES OUR CAUCUS WAS HAPPY WITH IT, SOMETIMES THEY WEREN'T.

BUT YOU HAVE TO LET THE CAUCUS GO THROUGH THE STAGES OF GRIEF WHEN THERE'S BAD NEWS.

AND THEY SKIPPED ALL OF THAT.

SO RIGHT NOW THEY ARE JUST GOING TO BE STUCK IN ANGER AND PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT JUSTIFIED, AND THEN THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO TO BARGAINING AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO LIKE THAT BECAUSE THE ACCEPTANCE PART IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Eric: HAVE YOU SEEN THAT, WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE PRESENTATION OF THE LEADERS?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THEY HAD REALLY HARD CHOICES TO MAKE, AND IT IS -- THE TYPES OF NEGOTIATION AND CCEPTANCE, AS BRIAN WAS TALKING ABOUT, OF YEARS PAST, I JUST DON'T THINK IS THE REALITY OF TODAY.

AND THE MAKEUP OF THESE CAUCUSES IS DIFFERENT.

AND ALSO THE MAJORITIES ARE SO SLIM, THAT THERE'S MORE POWER WITH OTHER CAUCUS AND SUBCAUCUSES LIKE THE POCI CAUCUS.

>> I THINK IT'S ONE OF THOSE TIMES WHERE ONE MEMBER CAN DISRAIL -- WHAT'S THE WORD?

>> DERAIL.

>> THANK YOU.

DERAIL THE WHOLE THING.

>> Eric: YEAH.

>> I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE AND MORE OF THAT.

THEY SAW THAT LAST YEAR WITH THE SENATOR WHO HELD UP THE WHOLE LEGISLATIVE SESSION THE END OF SESSION.

>> Eric: SENATOR FATEH, OVER THE UBER.

>> YES, THE UBER.

AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE AND MORE OF THAT.

YOU EMPOWER ONE OR TWO MEMBERS TO HAVE THEIR WAY.

>> Cathy: JAVIER, I MEAN, THE GOVERNOR SAYS, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU COMPROMISE, THE YELLING, CHANTING, BANGING ON THE DOOR, THAT KIND OF THING.

CAN LEADER HORTMAN HOLD THE HOUSE CAUCUS TOGETHER?

>> THIS IS WHAT -- THIS IS NOT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN COMPROMISE HAPPENS.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SHUT OUT PEOPLE OF COLOR FROM A DISCUSSION THAT'S REALLY RELEVANT TO COMMUNITIES OF COLOR IN THIS STATE.

AND, LOOK, ON THE ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN A CENTRAL PART OF THIS CONVERSATION, ON HEALTHCARE FOR UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS, LET'S SET OME GROUND RULES HERE.

FIRST OF ALL, IMMIGRANTS IN THIS STATE CONTRIBUTE MORE THAN THEY RECEIVE IN BENEFITS.

WE HAVE ENTIRE INDUSTRIES THAT DEPEND ON THEM, WHETHER IT'S HOME HEALTHCARE, THE HOSPITALITY, AGRICULTURE, AND AGRICULTURE, IN FACT, THE BEST WAY TO DESCRIBE IT WOULD BE THAT IF YOU ARE AGAINST ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, YOU SHOULD LIVE BY YOUR VALUES AND BOYCOTT FOOD BECAUSE IF YOU ATE THIS WEEK, YOU BENEFITTED FROM THE LABOR OF UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

AND, SO, THE HEALTHCARE WAS RESPONDING TO THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE ESSENTIAL -- THE ESSENTIAL EMPLOYEES WHO STAYED WORKING, THAT GOT SICKER FOR THAT REASON BURG DID THE PANDEMIC, SO THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO EMERGENCY ROOMS, WHICH IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE, THIS BILL, THE REPUBLICANS ARE TRYING TO PRETEND LIKE THIS IS ABOUT FISCAL SANTI, THIS IS GOING TO BE A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE FOR MINNESOTANS.

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO GIVE SOME CREDIT HERE TO SPEAKER DEMUTH AND LEADER JOHNSON BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS HAVE A SLIVER OF POWER, AND THEY WERE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE A DEAL THAT REPUBLICANS FEEL PRETTY GOOD ABOUT.

AND, YOU KNOW, THEY SAY THE HALLMARK SAY GOOD DEAL OF WHEN EVERYONE WALKS AWAY A LITTLE BIT UPSET.

WELL, THERE ARE TWO CAUCUSES THAT FEEL PRETTY GOOD ABOUT THE POSITION THEY'RE IN RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE BOTH GOP.

>> Eric: SO IF SENATOR MURPHY NEEDS REPUBLICAN VOTES, ASK BOTH OF YOU, HOW MANY CAN REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE SUPPLY ON THE HUMAN SERVICES BILL?

WHAT WOULD THEY WANT IN RETURN?

WHAT WOULD REPUBLICANS WANT IN RETURN?

>> I THINK THAT DEPENDS.

THAT'S PART OF WHAT JAVIER IS SAYING.

WE NEED TO HAVE SOME OPEN NEGOTIATIONS, AND THIS HAS BEEN DONE IN SECRECY BY THE FOUR LEADERS WITH THE GOVERNOR.

AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF -- LIKE THEY ALL OF A SUDDEN ANNOUNCED WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE THE STILLWATER PRISON.

WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?

THERE WAS NOT A LEGISLATIVE HEARING ABOUT THAT ALL YEAR LONG.

SUDDENLY THEY ANNOUNCE, THIS IS PART OF THE DEAL.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL VERY ALIENATED BY THE PROCESS AND THE WAY IT SKIPPED OVER ANY TYPE OF GOVERNMENT TRANSPARENCY, SO IF YOU WANT SOME BUY-IN, YOU GOTTA HAVE BUY-IN WITH ALLOWING THEM TO PARTICIPATE.

>> TO YOUR QUESTION, ERIC, HE DEMOCRATS HAVE THE MAJORITY IN THE SENATE.

IT IS NOT TOO LATE TO WORK OUT A DEAL IN WHICH THE MAJORITY OF SENATE DEMOCRATS CAN VOTE FOR.

AND I THINK THAT THAT IS FAR MORE LIKELY AND REASONABLE THAN PICKING UP GOP VOTES.

>> Eric: WHY IS THIS -- YOU TALKED ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT, BUT I WAS THINKING BACK, THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST EMOTIONAL ISSUE SINCE GAY MARRIAGE.

>> UM-HUM.

>> Eric: THE UNDOCUMENTED HEALTHCARE.

>> RIGHT.

>> Eric: BUSINESS.

AND IS IT A COMPROMISE ACCEPTABLE WHERE IT'S JUST THE KIDS OR YOU'RE EITHER PREGNANT OR YOU'RE NOT?

>> HERE'S THE PROBLEM ON THIS ISSUE IS THAT FOR YEARS, WE HAD IMMIGRANTS, WHETHER IT WAS DRIVER'S LICENSES OR ANY OTHER ISSUE, IMMIGRANTS WERE ALWAYS A BARGAINING CHIP, WHERE DEMOCRATS WOULD PROMISE TO STAND UP FOR IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES AND REPUBLICANS WOULD OPPOSE IT AND THEN WE'D ALWAYS AT THE LAST MINUTE HAVE A DEAL THAT WOULD UPSET BASE COMMUNITIES.

WE HAD IN A MOMENT OF ABUNDANCE, WE HAD AN ACCEPTANCE THAT IMMIGRANTS CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY THE WAY I JUST OUTLINED BEFORE, THERE WAS A MOMENT OF ACCEPTANCE, AND NOW WE'RE JUST BACK TO THE DAYS WHERE, LIKE, FROM DAY ONE IMMIGRANTS ARE ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK IN TERMS OF NEGOTIATIONS.

WHY?

BECAUSE WE HAVE -- BECAUSE OF THE NATIONAL ATMOSPHERE ON THIS, AND WE'VE BEEN PROUDLY STANDING UP TO THAT NATIONAL ATMOSPHERE AND NOW WE'RE NOT.

>> Cathy: WE'RE NO LONGER IN A TIME OF ABUNDANCE, THOUGH, BECAUSE WE ARE LOOKING AT A DEFICIT.

>> RIGHT.

SO WHAT THEY JUST DID IS GOING TO BE MORE COSTLY FOR MINNESOTANS BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE PREVENTATIVE CARE ARE, INSTEAD, GOING TO END UP IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM.

SO THIS IS BIASED AND RACISM, FRANKLY, LIKE, WITH THE ACE OF FINANCIAL -- OF TRYING TO BE FINANCIALLY SOLVENT.

THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

THEY'RE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE.

>> Eric: SOMEBODY AT THE CAPITOL SAID THEY DIDN'T THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATS YET GRIPPED THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT TWO YEARS AGO.

THAT IT'S DIFFERENT NOW.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THAT IS MAYBE A LITTLE BIT CORRECT.

BUT THAT IS WHAT CAUCUS LEADERS ARE THERE TO COMMUNICATE AND BRING THEIR CAUCUSES ALONG.

THERE'S LOTS OF TIMES WHERE THE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T ACTUALLY AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE DON'T NECESSARILY UNDERSTAND ALL THE PARTS THAT ARE PART OF A CAUCUS.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I'M NOT SHOCKED THAT IT HAPPENED.

I'M SHOCKED THAT IT HAPPENED ON MAY 15th.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, IF YOU HAVE TO AGREE TO THIS, IF YOU'RE THE DEMOCRATS, IF YOU HAVE TO AGREE TO THIS, YOU AGREE TO HIS ON JUNE 30th AND SAY, WE FOUGHT LIKE HELL, BUT THOSE REPUBLICANS JUST WOULDN'T GIVE UP ON THIS.

WHEN YOU AGREE O IT ON MAY 15th, YOU'RE KIND OF SAYING, WE AGREED TO IT.

>> Eric: DOES IT SLIDE TO JUNE 30th OR CAN MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND BE A DEADLINE?

PLACE RUNS ON A DEADLINE USUALLY.

>> EAH, I THINK WE'RE LOOKING CLOSER O THE END OF JUNE, TO BE VERY HONEST.

THEY'RE SO FAR APART.

>> Eric: WHAT WILL CHANGE?

WHAT WILL CHANGE BETWEEN NOW -- >> HAT BRIAN SAID IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

THEY'VE GOT TO BRING A LOT OF PEOPLE A LONG WAY.

WITH MY FRIEND, JAVIER, WHAT I WOULD DISAGREE WITH IS CALIFORNIA WAS ABLE TO WORK THIS OUT.

HOW DID CALIFORNIA DO IT?

AND WE CAN'T?

AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE LEADERSHIP THAT WE'RE LACKING HERE WITH GOVERNOR WALZ COMING FORWARD A LOT SOONER THAN THE END OF SESSION, FIVE DAYS BEFORE THE END OF SESSION, AND SAYING, HERE'S THE DEAL.

>> THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCES ON THE FINANCES BETWEEN WHAT HAPPENED IN CALIFORNIA, WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE BECAUSE THIS IS ACTUALLY A DROP IN THE BUCKET IN TERMS OF THE BUDGET.

BUT IMMIGRANTS WERE SACRIFICIAL LAMBS BECAUSE EVERYONE AGREED THAT THAT WOULD BE THE CASE.

>> Eric: GET IN.

>> I DO THINK THERE ARE STILL TIME FOR AN ALTERNATIVE COMPROMISE TO BE REACHED.

I REALLY DO.

>> Cathy: I WAS WONDERING, WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK, THE FACT THAT THE BUDGET OULD BE BALANCED INTO 2029 BIENNIUM, DOES THAT -- '28-29 BIENNIUM, WOULD THAT BE A SIGNAL THAT GOVERNOR WALZ MIGHT BE LOOKING AT A THIRD TERM?

THAT HE WOULD NOT WANT TO HAVE AN UNBALANCED BUDGET?

>> I THINK THE TWO MARQUIS THINGS THAT TIM WALZ HAS DONE THIS YEAR IS BRING STATE WORKERS BACK TO WORK WITHOUT TALKING TO THE UNIONS ABOUT IT FIRST.

AND TAKING, YOU KNOW, ADULT UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE, ADULTS OFF OF THE MINNESOTACARE WITHOUT TALKING TO THE CAUCUSES.

>> Cathy: STILLWATER STATE PRISON CLOSING.

>> I WOULD SAY AS N A WORSE -- HE'S IN A WORSE POSITION NOW, CERTAINLY FOR PRESIDENT, ALMOST FORGET ABOUT THAT, BUT FOR GOVERNOR, I THINK HE'S MORE VULNERABLE THAN HE'S EVER BEEN.

>> Eric: NEWS CONFERENCE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PROCESS FOR STILLWATER PRISON.

>> I THINK THE GOVERNOR SHOULD MAYBE EXPAND HIS CIRCLES OF ADVISORS.

>> 100%.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN CLOSE A PRISON AND NOT HAVE MEETINGS WITH THE UNION OFFICIALS THAT ARE GOING TO BE INVOLVED, NOT LAY OUT A PLAN AND SAY, WHERE ARE THESE 1100 PRISONERS GOING TO GO?

IT WAS LIKE FANTASY LAND.

>> Eric: THERE'S A FOUR-YEAR FADEOUT, ISN'T THAT TIME TO COME UP WITH A PLAN?

PHASE-OUT.

>> Cathy: BUT NO ONE HEARD ABOUT IT UNTIL NOW.

>> I WAS SO FOCUSED ON THE OTHER ISSUES, I FOUND OUT IN THE GREEN ROOM, MY JAW HIT THE FLOOR.

WAIT, THEY'RE CLOSING A PRISON?

I WAS FOCUSED ON OTHER ISSUES IN THE BUDGET.

>> THAT WAS A REALLY BIG IMPORTANT ECISION THAT NEEDS LEGISLATIVE BUY-IN AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, ALL THE OTHER PROCESSES THAT YOU GO THROUGH WHEN YOU DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, LIKE HAVING A MEETING WITH THE NION OFFICIALS AND EXPLAINING WHY THIS HAS TO HAPPEN.

>> I THINK THEY'RE MAYBE BANKING ON HENNEPIN COUNTY ATTORNEY MAR ARRESTTY NOT SENDING ANYONE TO PRISON ANYMORE.

>> Cathy: IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU THINK THERE'S A DEFINITE DANGER THAT THIS DEAL COULD BE DERAILED.

>> I THINK IT'S ALREADY NOT A DEAL.

MORIARTY.

>> Cathy: IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> Eric: MELISSA LÓPEZ FRANZEN GOT OUT OF THE SENATE RACE TODAY.

>> OH, REALLY?

>> Eric: BREAKING NEWS ON "ALMANAC."

>> Cathy: YES, IT'S TRUE.

>> IT HAPPENED LATE IN THE AFTERNOON.

>> Cathy: EXACTLY.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, APPRECIATE IT, PANEL.

THIS TIME OF THE YEAR, WE KIND OF RAN LONG BECAUSE OF ALL THE THINGS AT THE CAPITOL TONIGHT.

SO NEXT WEEK WE'LL HAVE THE ANSWER TO OUR MOST RECENT MINNESOTA HISTORY QUESTION.

COUPLE OF QUICK NOTES BEFORE WE GO.

IT'S "ALMANAC" VIEWER SURVEY TIME.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK BY HEADING TO TPT.ORG/ALMANAC SURVEY.

YOU HAVE JUST ABOUT A WEEK LEFT BEFORE THE SURVEY DISAPPEARS.

IT'S A WAY FOR US TO LEARN ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE AS WE PLAN UPCOMING SHOWS.

FOR TONIGHT'S SHOW-ENDING MUSIC, HERE'S A PRODUCER FAVORITE FROM THE ARCHIVES.

THIS WEEK BACK IN 2018, THE "PLUCKED UP STRING BAND" MADE THE LONG DRIVE DOWN FROM GRAND MARAIS TO PROMOTE THE RELEASE OF THEIR FIRST- AND SADLY ONLY- ALBUM.

TAKE A LISTEN AND COME BACK NEXT WEEK.

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